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is it forces you to not rest on your laurels basically of, well, I've got this cool microscope in the lab. I can show to people." You have to then be a lot more intentional about how it is you're trying to design experiments or design activities. And also just know that you are in someone else's domain basically now and you have to be sensitive to what it is that they're interested in, because it's just not going to make a lot of sense if you come to an event and you bring something that's way out of left field and they're like, "What is this? Why are you doing this?" Unless you're doing it because they ask for it because they think it's interesting because the kids showed interest. So at least it shakes you a little bit and it reminds you that you got to be a little more intentional than you may have initially thought if you were just bringing somebody to your lab.

Okay. Now I'm putting on the earrings. Fantastic, that's great. Latasha, I think you may have heard this when you re-listened to the recording, but, you buying those earrings and then saying what you did about them in the call, it fulfilled my whole, that just fulfilled all I wanted for this project. Somebody to buy some earrings because they thought it was interesting to have a little Engagement Experience and then carry them with them and wear them every one in a while and have people ask them about it. That was the original inspiration for the whole project was me going to a fair and we were doing outreach there, but it was the usual thing, the tabletop and the tent, and the hands-on activities with the kids. Which is fine, but I wandered around. I didn't have to do that, so I wandered around and I was like, "Where else could we fit in here?" And then I had that little spark within, was what do we have to do to get into the vending area. Nice, yeah. In my original spark, it was a pendant. That was my original. But you know, that's all right. I'm an earrings' person. I don't really wear that many necklaces.

One thing that's like looking at these "identity," "reach," "connections"...... Even just within what I do and what Emily does, I think that we have different identities, and it depends on the reach. I definitely know to talk a certain way or behave a certain way based on if I'm at a market that's really touristy. Or, if I'm at the local market where there's a beer garden, you know I can be a little bit more informal or maybe... The identity is kind of a little bit of a pendulum, based on setting. So maybe setting is a good one. Yeah, setting.

how is this merchandise going to then have a life of its own once it leaves you and part of that is having that merchandise, having the life as well as the person who's selling, it gives you some gives the purchaser either a story, or either the tools to be able to have the merchandise, have a life of its own outside of when it leaves the booth. Either by telling I bought this from a scientist who works on this or this actually represents this galaxy, or this is my sign. And, so I think that will be a way for this to actually be engagement because you want it to spark something into, in that person who actually bought it. You don't want them to say, Oh, I bought these earrings, but I'm never gonna wear them, but when they go out into the world and they put them on and like a special occasion, and then when people ask, what it says, and then they are able to like be science and become like a mini science educator

I think you kind of put the nail on the head or not the nail on the head or whatever. It's not just the, it's not do this science thing well, it's like, do the market well, or do the shop well, or do the website well. And if you do that and your primary goal is getting people excited about science, you're going succeed. But

I actually bought earrings. And one of the reasons why that I really honed in on buying those things was because of the talking with the scientists, and talking about her research and how that, and then part of the one thing that was the big selling point was these are real images and you're going to be wearing the cosmos. So, I think it's what is your message? As far as not just selling, but if you're doing some outreach part, and I would have like that little card that you had to show the different galaxies, if that actually came in, came with my earrings a little small, version of that, so that I could then if you want your merchandise, the people to take your merchandise, and then really talk about it with their friends, then have that and so that they can kind of remember what it is that I saw had the butterfly galaxy. And when people asked me about my earrings, I can say, "Hey, this is the butterfly galaxy." And then maybe we were talking about another thing was being able to have some dialogue with you. And if you had a Instagram page, and had people have it out, and this is where I wore my earrings, we talked about it, and be able to tag you and tell you about it. So I don't know, I guess it's your ultimate goal of what you want with this merchandise to do when it goes out into the world.

So we've talked a lot just over the past, I don't know how awkward it is for you Charity, but over the past 10, 15 minutes about who Charity is, which begs the question then, could anyone do this? And that's something that I've wondered about as I've tried to find a few examples to hold up of science engagement functioning in retail spaces. And in both cases, as it turns out, actually in both cases it's women who also happen to be astrophysicists who also happen to be really interested in fashion accessory work. So I wonder though, I mean Charity you have such a specific thing that you do and it's so unique as you said and it comes from a place that's really about your own unique identity and who you are. How do we try to hold this up as something that other people might want to try? That's a good question. I think, it's not about copying what I'm doing, it's about morphing it to what is already out there. And there's so many bases to cover. When you think about the retail world, you have markets like this, you have craft fairs, you have actual walk-in stores, you can go to conferences. There's all different kinds of conferences, you can go to women conferences, a bunch of people I know from the market do that. There's all these different places and I don't think that one company could go to all those places and do science engagement. I think you have to have different types. Whereas I would put myself in a really crafty, artsy type business, a lot of it's just me and what can I do in that lane. Then you would have people who are still active in academia, formal researchers who have great connections to science conferences, women in STEM conferences. What can they do in those areas. And I think the engagement component is completely different based on where you are and what you're doing.

I do think that there could be some positives in learning what people are interested in. And I don't know how to say this, but giving the people what they want. So by learning what's selling well and having it stay within the science branding, which I already, like I've already expressed, I feel like that's a challenge in itself to determine what is the science brand, what you want to focus on is infinite, I think. But anyway, if you have that opportunity you could actually investigate what gets people excited.

my involvement in the program, It showed me two primary things. I think that one is that this type of approach that is centered around relationship building can work and not having to put STEM first. And number two, how to move forward with this type of approach. Not only thinking about this, even just in my head, but also knowing that others are doing this type of thinking and how to move forward with improving it. I feel I've made just a ton of revelations from all the way back when we started until now. And I think continuing to ruminate on it, trying stuff out and not being afraid to not put metrics first is going to be hugely important in the way that I move forward thinking about outreaching and practicing.

I can't help but point out that Rick's approach has been amorphous from the beginning. And I think that's something I really appreciated. And I remember reading his ... We had a competitive application process to decide on sites. Rick's proposals was like, "We have no idea what we're going to do, but we're going to go to this many meetings one at a time." And I was like, "That sounds really interesting to me. That's process over product." I mean, you really did come at this without a predetermined sense of like, "Well, we're going to have to have this event on that." I remember having conversations with you and this is, I'm now influencing the conversation a little bit, but nothing's objective anyways. So you received funding to participate for doing the project. And it was just a set amount for every site. And you were like, "Well, I'm having trouble spending this money." I remember having a conversation with you where I was like, "Well, you can buy pizza." And you're like, "Really?" I'm like, "Yeah, you can buy food. Or if somebody needs something, bring pizza to the next community meeting you go to or whatever people are eating." And I don't know. There's something that I've found. It's funny to me that you're still struggling with the fact that it's amorphous, but to me in a weird way, maybe that is actually a great strength.

This certainly didn't happen overnight. So I've been working with Dwight for the last couple of years and I've actually seen specifically my relationship with Dottie become stronger and stronger as I've been more and more consistent. As like, she's seen me around these events, she actually knows that I actually care about the community because I live here and because I have an interest as well with science, and I think that's right. If I came in wanting to be an insider trying to be buddy, buddy, always trying to bring science activities to every single thing that Dwight was doing, then it would have felt a little forced, it would have been very clear to someone as sharp as Dottie that it's more some sort of ulterior motives as opposed to me being willing to just come and pick up trash and come to the meetings regularly and listen to the neighborhood's upcoming events and issues and initiatives to where Dottie was actually, the woman who asked me during the summer, she said, "Hey, I've got a bunch of kids that are run around the neighborhood, and I think it'd be really cool to invite you guys over for a barbecue and just have some science activities have some hot dogs and stuff like that." She was the one that pitched that to me out of nowhere, and so this sort of relationship building, seeing me as an insider in at least some way, but not because I asked for it, or invited or told my neighbors like, "Hey, what if I came to your backyard with some science, what you think about that?" I think that that's something that I hadn't actually consciously thought through, but just tried to be intentional about not being overbearing, or having some sort of savior mindset and just showing up to meetings and saying, "Hey, we're here if you guys want us to come bring some events, and if not, I also just happen to live here, and I want to be involved in some way."

I mean that to say that you come into a setting with your own sort of perceptions with your own background, how you think about certain things, you come in with a ton, a ton, a ton of assumptions. So I think as an ethnographer, as a sociologist, it's about being mindful, as you're stepping in about turning off those assumptions and listening, and truly just listening to what people are saying, to what people are saying that are similar, to what people are saying that are different. So I think oftentimes it becomes rendering exactly what you're hearing from the people that are there, and I think the important thing to know is, it is not always going to be what you think you should hear or what you even want to hear it, it's usually going to be something that's just organic to that community.

if there's an outcome or recommendation that we can glean from those experience is, if you want to do genuine community engagement, ditch STEM altogether and just find ways to participate in the process of the community itself.

you need to understand, yes, access and inclusion in STEM and in the tech field is a barrier that communities of color face, but it's also like within and embedded within so many other barriers that intersect each other. So it's almost like the best way I could explain it, is as somebody who was working in government, was doing a policy portfolio around advancing equity and outcomes for women and girls of color, working on a number of different issues, from criminal and juvenile justice reform to other education related issues, like exclusionary school discipline, like how black and brown kids are being suspended and expelled at disproportionate rates, to prison pipeline, to other educational barriers that they face. It is truthfully hard to think about their access and inclusion into science and what we're including in the classroom in terms of science, access and inclusion, when there are so many other just baseline when you think of like a hierarchy of needs. So many other baseline structural inequalities that are happening. So for me having that lens when I walked in from the moment, and I was kind of thinking about how I was going to go into Saturday, did I have to put on some special science lens or science hat? I said, "No, just go in as the researcher, as the ethnographer, as the sociologists that you are." That gravitated me towards just thinking about the community first, before I was even thinking about how folks would touch upon science that day, I was just looking at the neighborhood looking at, how folks were interacting with the fire department officials that were there, looking at what moms were talking about, were they talking about doctor's appointments? Were they talking about having to buy school supplies? Looking at the housing, the government assisted housing that was right across the street from the middle school. Looking at all of these other pieces that made this community what it was because you if you're going to understand how these folks, how kids, how families are interacting and engaging with science, or are included or excluded from science, you need to understand the context of all of these other systems and systemic barriers that they face on a day to day.

I really enjoyed seeing some of the people that I knew were from that neighborhood come out and experience Cascade Road in a different way. And it was good to see some of the families come out and have some leisure time and be able to interact with their neighborhood in a way that like I said, at the beginning of the call that they don't normally get the chance too, because its such a busy thoroughfare. And also because it's a place where between the grind of going to work, going to school X, Y, and Z, you never stop to think, "Okay, how beautiful is this neighborhood in this street?" And the history that's on this street is so important to black Atlanta as well. So for me, I always respect... Like the hashtag says respect, cascade. And you think about, it's a very strong community there that is under assault in some ways, but also was very strong and has lots of resources that are there. And I think in many ways, if partners could look at those neighborhoods like that and think about, "Okay, what are the strengths of this neighborhood and how can we build upon those particular strengths that exist here and then rather than figuring out, "Okay, what's lacking here? How do we meet that lack?" But more so how to we be with working here and how can we contribute the most working here? I think that'd be a cool way to think about different initiatives in this particular neighborhood and similar ones like it.

I would probably go and figure out what are the times and places of any kind of community organization that meets like at a community center, if it's group of elders in the neighborhood, if it's some bingo players, if it's a church that has something recreational for kids to do, I'd figure out, "Okay, what institutions are within the neighborhood first?" And then just go visit and show up. So for example, doing research in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, it was really about going to churches and meeting people in church. And then from there snowballing it to, "Okay, now I met you at church. So now I'm going to get an invitation over to your home for dinner or something or a barbecue." And it just rolls into that. That's how we do our work. It's network-based, but you create a purposive sample of this. That means, you're trying to go to a particular place trying to find 10 people. And then from there, it becomes a snowball sample of, "Do you know someone who you think would be good to bring into this program or talk to about the particular topic."

I think part of the approach, particularly from anthropology and cultural anthro, and so it's always... I know that for science and big science, the idea is to scale up. How do you scale this up. I think for us, we like to scale down a bit and think about, "Okay, on the level of the neighborhood, on the level of the community, I didn't think about institutions that are meaningful to a wide variety of people that live in these neighborhoods. So I think for example, you have to figure out what your approach will be to understanding what the community is and what the politics are in the neighborhood. I think if you go to churches, for example, you'll get one perspective from going to different churches. If you go to different public schools, for example, the different perspectives on what the neighborhood is and what it means, what the limits are of that neighborhood. But I think generally it's just the way to tap into a neighborhood or community is a slow process and it only happens with the same engagement. There's no checklist on best practices, there's no real easy way to do it. But I will say that by putting in that time with particular neighborhoods and institutions within neighborhoods that I trusted within those neighborhoods, it pays [inaudible] dividends for you when it's time for a big event like this, because people will want to come out and want to support. Because they know that you've been there for more than just a particular event. From my perspective, and do a research in neighborhoods events similar to this and being from this neighborhood, I think going through some of the key churches, maybe on Sunday and when they have the announcements part of church, just being there and talking to the congregation and saying, "I'm from this organization, they're doing X, Y, and Z, we'd love some input from the community. If you want to talk to us [inaudible] and that can help keep the ball rolling. In that cliff neighborhood churches will be central to doing that. But I think, figure out what the solutions are trusted and valued by the people who lived there. And then sourcing those to figure out, who are your key people, people who be like " Center people for you to do your work into... We've got the other folks and bring people in together to the particular event.

I think my position on it was twofold in a way in terms of how I experienced the event because on the one hand I was an observer of it in an official capacity, but also that's the neighborhood where I grew up. I told Jonathan I worked at a place that was right there. I went to that [inaudible], so that was really my neighborhood. I think I have emotional ties to the areas where it goes beyond just my observations. When I pulled up to the event and I saw everything I thought about just how rapidly that corridor is gentrifying. And I thought about how, "Wow, this really can seem like a colonial event where there's these outsiders who are coming in and they block the entire Cascade Road. Even though there was a big turnout of people who were from the neighborhood, there was a lot of turnout for folks who are not from that part of town. And probably have never been to that part of town before who were there for the event. So I think that on the outside looking in, not knowing the event...outside of Atlanta, just the Streets Alive initiative itself. I think that the way it flat down in that neighborhood, as somebody who's from there it read to me like, "Wow, okay, they're gentrifying this neighborhood. It's like a pilot test for, "How do we make this street more safe?" Because now they're justifying Café Corridor because that intersection has been dangerous. I didn't even know it though, because I never heard anybody say that before. But apparently it's been dangerous for a long time and nothing's happened all these years and now would it be different by and Belt Line is right there. Now Street Alive comes and now you have this cycle Atlanta Fest. And because I'm outside the neighborhood, I'm not coming. So it can read like, "Oh my God, these are outsiders coming in and what are they doing here?" And that was my initial emotional response to the event.

Well, two things I would say that I've learned along the way through some fits and starts is always when chatting with people, and if they're open and interested as you're wrapping up the conversation and setting up a time to talk more, it's always ask, "Who else should be a part of the conversation?" And let them think a little bit about what other entity or group just like Justin was doing, who would be interested. And then see if they're willing to make that introduction. Because a lot of times I'm not the right person to go into a community and start trying to reach out, but finding people who are willing to be a part of it is great. And then the other thing that the whole term of "reaching out" is loaded. Like I noticed, and I fall guilty of this. When I say I talked to someone, I'm mind typing with my fingers, which means I emailed them. And did I email them? Did I show up? Did I find a time that was convenient for them? And again, you probably did all this, but I think it's important to think about, and to document that building those relationships, there's a lot of shiny objects that get dropped into different places and then they disappear and go away. So sometimes thinking about how much you can actually show up and show up in person, which I think the currency of in-person has gone up as much as the currency of digital and perhaps even more so. So I think getting into the right meetings and thinking about the different neighborhoods, communities, community leaders, stakeholders, organizations, non-traditional beyond the cultural institutions, like informal learning places, but certainly your churches and community centers are big. So thinking through some of those places and finding those connectors, is really key. And I'm probably not saying that anything you don't know, it's just who goes to bandwidth? Because you try it with one and then get pulled away on 17 other projects and initiatives. So being really intentional and committing to it, is key.

I think, the big thing is meeting people where they're at, and understanding that, and respecting that. Where they're coming from, and where their passions, and grounding is. That was pretty awesome.

There's a huge gap, between people who have access to the kinds of outreach that scientists think are effective, and the actual people who can attend. And so what I really loved about Dragon Con's parade, is that, and actually this is my commentary, but people hopped on the train, and they arrived. It wasn't some deep registration process, or some huge vetting. It was just, "If you can make it, show up here." And I think the value of that, is not lost on someone like me, who's really thinking about science engagement. Like I said, it may not be the learning process that we're all dreaming of, but that relationship, and trust will take time, and an investment from different organizations to build. And so if I only show up in your neighborhood one time, and try to teach you about science you should know, then you're going to look at me like, "Who are you? Why do you matter?" But if you can see me repeatedly making investments in different spaces, in different environments, even a branding principle, is the more you see a brand, the more likely you are to trust it, or to recognize it. And so, in the science engagement space, a lot of the white savior science communicators don't seem to get, that underserved communities are not grateful for you showing up, and trying to teach us. In the instances where you can be present, where you can contribute without any expectation of reciprocity to a community, I think that those only help to strengthen the reputation you have. And so, if I were making a case for people with the money to spend on this stuff, I would absolutely encourage them. Even if it is providing providing a booth, or providing labor for a booth, or if it's walking in a parade, those kinds of things add up to ultimately a trust, that communities can place, and you will make them recognize you. Sorry. I'm very passionate about this. Because I just see a lot of science communication that just drops into a community, and then runs out when they feel they fulfill their own personal mission, without really listening or finding other ways to be present for these communities.

this idea that science is coming to you wherever you are. It's meeting you where you are, rather than you going into a "Science space," that you may not feel, is open to you, or accessible to you. But rather, it's coming to you, and meeting you exactly where you are. I think that's powerful.

it's all very situational. I like this, situated, word in this. I think that's a big deal that could come out of this, is even some pieces of, "Here's what it's to go into environments that we're usually not in, and that we don't own, and we don't control." There's a whole piece that I've been very impressed with, that came out of the medical field, of particularly a couple of women in the San Francisco Bay Area. A doctor, and a nurse, who are working with diverse communities, and realizing that the medical treatments weren't working, because they weren't being respectful of the cultural context in which they were working. And that they had to become, not experts, but become humble, and understand the situations that they were actually in, so that they could actually meet folks on the terms of the people, who they were trying to help medically. And that's pretty profound some of that stuff, that spills over into this learning environment. That's where a lot of the strength, and power, and all is in this.

one of the things that's happening in the museum field, is how do we actually connect? And how do we become more socially just places? And one of the things that I think, really leads in this situated in engagement stuff, is that what we're finding from the national network perspective of talking to people, is that it's not going to happen at our places where people are comfortable. Like Rick points out, it's families with kids, and it's older adults who feel comfortable, who feel like they have ownership of those places. And the Comic Con, and the parade environments, those two that we're really looking at, has a totally different ownership, of who those places belong to. And how you can participate in that belonging.

In order to enter these other communities, and engage with them authentically, you're having to push yourself outside of your space, your comfort zone. When we communicate, we often control so much. Everything from, we get to decide whether there's live surveys, and polling, to how the AV system works, and Q&A. And we decide for the audience all these experiences. And here we're having to play in someone else's structure, and as Paul was saying, they're kind of in control of of what they are receptive to. And so, I think it pushes practitioners to just think differently about what they're doing, in ways that they otherwise won't ever in their normal career.

I think of audiences that we would love to have in museums and when you go to Chuck E Cheese, if any of you have spent time at Chuck E Cheese, it's a wildly diverse audience that's throwing money around like crazy, like a kiddy casino, and they're providing a service and a venue for something that people find very valuable and very diverse audiences find very valuable. I saw that same kind of audience and that same kind of, "Oh my god, these people are having a great time and they're putting resources into this." Paying the admission is nothing compared to what people put into these costumes. Even if you buy an off the shelf Spider-Man costume you're putting a lot of cash into this, so there's an investment already being made and it's just a very compatible audience. I think you just make all the hey you can with this because it's a premade match and that was really surprising to me, and delightful and really exciting.

I do think the reaction to science comes from ... people cheering for the fact that science was on the sign, I think probably stems in a large part from the fact that it is a parade, and that's the accepted behavior. And so it's probably very likely that they were cheering for every bit of it that came by because of, "Hey, it's also part of the parade." So I think some of it was getting caught up in the atmosphere of the parade itself, but I do think that this was in some ways a unique subset of people in Atlanta that had an open mind towards science and science fiction and fantasy and gaming and that subset. Not necessarily everybody, but I think it's a case of, there's people who were on the fence and didn't know what they wanted to do with it. When you're in that environment and seeing how positive it is and you're left with this reaction of, "Oh, that was kind of cool. Maybe there's just some things that I want to start looking into."

What's the function of being in a parade? Well, I mean, you're connecting with people that you wouldn't meet otherwise. Of course you're connecting with the people you're marching with, which is what I was emphasizing a moment ago, but you're potentially rubbing shoulders with and interacting with people who you might not meet at work or at school or in your neighborhood. So that's where the incredible strength of this gathering of people is really fabulous. And the crowd really was way more diverse than I expected. I think that's really amazing. And I think the idea that science can be fun, that science can be exciting, that's already implied in the fact that you're marching in a parade. So I think though there could be ways to make that even more fully realized in the interactions, but I think that that's a strong element of what already was presented this year.

there is something that happens before the parade. It's something that I either didn't really know or forgot, but that whole process is really important, and I think it speaks to an opportunity that is bigger than just DragonCon, but an opportunity to really integrate science into many different events like this. There's a big lantern parade, there's something called Atlanta Streets Alive and there are all these parade opportunities, the Pride parades. And perhaps one thing that Science ATL could do, is to generate this science in parade, science on parade club, that would do the things that you described, have these workshops and meetups between makers and artists and scientists, who could then also showcase some of the resources and some of the big players in the Atlanta science scene, in the context of putting science out there and integrating it into the cultural scene in Atlanta. I'm really loving this idea and I'm thinking more bigger than just DragonCon. Well, that would really help the organization to be potentially more of a year round activity for people who love that stuff, that they could have several events and they can practice what works, what doesn't work, and think, "Okay, three months from now we're going to do it a little different."

I guess I would add just a little more about the parade crowd itself. In downtown Atlanta the streets are really wide and I have to say, coming from new Orleans, they're super clean, and the audience members are four or five people deep. The kids are sitting on the sidewalks, many of them wearing superhero costumes, so they're in full spandex. They're really excited, they're parents are really excited. So there's diverse ages, and I would say in terms of race ethnicity, there's quite a lot of diversity as well. It's hard to say for sure about income and education, but that's probably the case too. And so I was really impressed with that, and also with just how incredibly focused and enthusiastic the crowd was. They were reading the parade really, really closely, and they were looking for things to figure out. And I think in terms of just describing the setting, I think that's really important for understanding what a good idea it is to do this with science, I think, and also the opportunity there, that the scene presents. And

an event is so much bigger than the actual day of the event, the actual event itself. It's so much bigger in the hype leading up to it. The documentation that comes after that. The conversations you have later. The quotes you receive while you're standing in the crowd and listening, the kids that talk about it, who are involved in the parade or participating by being a spectator. All of that is meaningful. It's not just about the two hours that you're actually walking through a parade. It's so much more important than that and so much bigger, and a lot to consider.

What was profound to me is that it was so clear how much the Flagstaff Festival of Science and science itself is such a part of the fabric of the community. We were kind of looking at it when we went in as the Fourth of July parade is this thing and we're this thing. Is this going to blend? Does this make any sense? Is this going to be weird? We're not a marching band. We're not demonstrating something with dancers. We're not jumping around necessarily. We're showcasing something else where ours is more of an imagination of the mind, a journey of the mind, perhaps, and if you go that deep with the Science, but if you bring it down to what excites kids, you get there. You get there with what is fun to showcase but I think my takeaway from this would be and something that I believe the board of directors would back me on this in the festival is that it's important to be part of the fabric of the community. We're not just as other thing. We're integrated heavily into this community and it's not a surprise that we're in the parade after all. We should be in the parade. People are happy to have us in the parade and may well expect us to be in the parade in years to come. It's not just a fringy thing to do just because somebody likes parades. It's something that shows support for the community, shows how integrated we are in the community and offers a lot of visibility to the general audience. The general audience includes people from outside the Flagstaff area. It can include all ages. It includes families who can walk down the street go to this parade and don't necessarily have the background or a family support of being taken to be exposed to science events. For all those reasons, it seems so right and not a tough sell anymore when you're talking to other festivals or you're talking to festival board members or donors. It just makes sense and you can make that case for why you need to show up in places like this.

It's a new and interesting venue. The more venues that we start taking seriously, the more venues we get to use. The, as I mentioned before, audience access is superb. Again, you are hitting at thousands of people that probably wouldn't have sought you out any other way. That's really big. You're doing it in a happy environment. There's lots of research to show that when people are happy, they respond to messages differently. Absolutely, the thing itself is a great venue for sci-com for talking about science issues, and I think that it should absolutely be pursued further.

On the practical end, I will say that the sheer exposure is phenomenal. You are hitting thousands of people in a really short period of time that do not necessarily give a damn about science, but that's actually important. You have gone to an audience that is huge and is looking at you and may not just stumble upon you any other way, so I think that the chance to do that is not to be ... Or that cannot be overstated.

There's something else maybe that we haven't quite spoken out loud today that has to do with the way that parades and festivals and maybe actually science fiction itself as one of the themes of Dragon Con is by taking us out of ourselves or of our ordinary every day, it makes it possible for us to think about how the world can be different. And I think on a really deep level science does that too. Thinking about how things work can also help us to think about how things can work differently. Things don't always have to be the way they are now, which is sometimes an incredibly hopeful message for us to have. And certainly, that applies to... Yeah. So a parade like Pride that takes potentially out of the closet or out of heteronormative just to use the jargon or space. It might help us to think "Oh, no, I can actually be who I am." Our culture, what could actually be different than what it is now. Maybe there can be a little more of an open community culture around who we are. And I think parades and festivals do this in a variety of ways by taking us out of our everyday ways of being and thinking about what can be. So I think that's inherently powerful,

I come from communication science. And one of our big theorists, Marshall McLuhan has a really famous statement, the medium is the message. And I think that that very much applies here. You cannot separate the context from the message itself, it is the message, it is what you are trying to do at these events, is inevitably molded and formed by the event that it is in. The people that you deliver it to change because of that event, the way that people are going to process, the messages that you are giving them are going to naturally change because of the context it is delivered in. So yes, what that means specifically for a parade? I don't know. I don't know if it means that these themes will only appear in a parade. I don't think so. But I do think that it means that the context of a parade will always to be different than the context of a Science Festival of a museum, of a science center, of a lecture in a classroom, that they must be examined on their own merits.

One of the big benefits is exposure, really what happens a lot is that you get scientists, science professionals that are interested, really genuinely in talking to the community, but I do not know how to do that. I don't know where they are. I intend to tweet about my research. And it's like, yeah, sure, that's fine. But why would anyone read that? So these community level events and saying that well, if you are interested, one way that you can reach people in your community is by going to where people in your community are, is a thing that sounds very simple, but people don't think about it that way. And so I think that that is a huge selling point for these types of events for people that are interested in getting what they do out there and connecting with the community, when they just honestly don't know how to do that.

I would say that in the way that we presented science it's like, "Here's the thing you're learning in the middle of all of these other shenanigans." And the subtle message there is that science is more serious, I think, or less inventive

I think there's a profound opportunity, for us to be learners in this, and for the field to learn from this. And I think that's where the power in this whole thing is. Is that our role in our jobs, is to be providers, and connectors, and all those kinds of things. But this whole exercise then, provides us an opportunity to be learners ourselves. And I think that's a really important piece of this, is what can we learn from this that can help our practice be better. And help us as practitioners, to understand where people are actually coming from, and where we're coming from. And how that fits, and doesn't fit into these different places. I think there's something profound there.