This certainly didn't happen overnight. So I've been working with Dwight for the last couple of years and I've actually seen specifically my relationship with Dottie become stronger and stronger as I've been more and more consistent. As like, she's seen me around these events, she actually knows that I actually care about the community because I live here and because I have an interest as well with science, and I think that's right. If I came in wanting to be an insider trying to be buddy, buddy, always trying to bring science activities to every single thing that Dwight was doing, then it would have felt a little forced, it would have been very clear to someone as sharp as Dottie that it's more some sort of ulterior motives as opposed to me being willing to just come and pick up trash and come to the meetings regularly and listen to the neighborhood's upcoming events and issues and initiatives to where Dottie was actually, the woman who asked me during the summer, she said, "Hey, I've got a bunch of kids that are run around the neighborhood, and I think it'd be really cool to invite you guys over for a barbecue and just have some science activities have some hot dogs and stuff like that." She was the one that pitched that to me out of nowhere, and so this sort of relationship building, seeing me as an insider in at least some way, but not because I asked for it, or invited or told my neighbors like, "Hey, what if I came to your backyard with some science, what you think about that?" I think that that's something that I hadn't actually consciously thought through, but just tried to be intentional about not being overbearing, or having some sort of savior mindset and just showing up to meetings and saying, "Hey, we're here if you guys want us to come bring some events, and if not, I also just happen to live here, and I want to be involved in some way."

I mean that to say that you come into a setting with your own sort of perceptions with your own background, how you think about certain things, you come in with a ton, a ton, a ton of assumptions. So I think as an ethnographer, as a sociologist, it's about being mindful, as you're stepping in about turning off those assumptions and listening, and truly just listening to what people are saying, to what people are saying that are similar, to what people are saying that are different. So I think oftentimes it becomes rendering exactly what you're hearing from the people that are there, and I think the important thing to know is, it is not always going to be what you think you should hear or what you even want to hear it, it's usually going to be something that's just organic to that community.

if there's an outcome or recommendation that we can glean from those experience is, if you want to do genuine community engagement, ditch STEM altogether and just find ways to participate in the process of the community itself.

you need to understand, yes, access and inclusion in STEM and in the tech field is a barrier that communities of color face, but it's also like within and embedded within so many other barriers that intersect each other. So it's almost like the best way I could explain it, is as somebody who was working in government, was doing a policy portfolio around advancing equity and outcomes for women and girls of color, working on a number of different issues, from criminal and juvenile justice reform to other education related issues, like exclusionary school discipline, like how black and brown kids are being suspended and expelled at disproportionate rates, to prison pipeline, to other educational barriers that they face. It is truthfully hard to think about their access and inclusion into science and what we're including in the classroom in terms of science, access and inclusion, when there are so many other just baseline when you think of like a hierarchy of needs. So many other baseline structural inequalities that are happening. So for me having that lens when I walked in from the moment, and I was kind of thinking about how I was going to go into Saturday, did I have to put on some special science lens or science hat? I said, "No, just go in as the researcher, as the ethnographer, as the sociologists that you are." That gravitated me towards just thinking about the community first, before I was even thinking about how folks would touch upon science that day, I was just looking at the neighborhood looking at, how folks were interacting with the fire department officials that were there, looking at what moms were talking about, were they talking about doctor's appointments? Were they talking about having to buy school supplies? Looking at the housing, the government assisted housing that was right across the street from the middle school. Looking at all of these other pieces that made this community what it was because you if you're going to understand how these folks, how kids, how families are interacting and engaging with science, or are included or excluded from science, you need to understand the context of all of these other systems and systemic barriers that they face on a day to day.

The moment that I reflected on the most on my time on Saturday was just a pull-aside conversation that I had with Dottie Green and realizing the many, many connections we had just around the work she's been doing for decades and work that I'm interested in researching and doing policy work around. It turns out that Dottie was a principal in several jails and correctional facilities across the state of Connecticut. So it's like the exact nexus of a lot of the research I do around the criminal juvenile justice system around the education system. So I just remember having that conversation with her wanting to connect with her afterwards, and then just spending a lot of time just reflecting on this conflict between who does sort of this broader scale programming and policy on the institutional level or on the national level, on the government level. I just thought a lot about how much of an expert somebody like a Dottie Green was, and all the time she has spent in jails and correctional facilities, and her time spent in middle and high schools and then as a principal within these facilities and how much she's an expert on the change that needs to happen, whether it's in education or whether it's in different systems reform, and just thinking about different rooms that I've been in with policymakers and in government where nobody has that expertise that Dottie has.

those who are facing the obstacles or challenge are closest to the solution and know best the solution. So being somebody who feels like a little bit of an outsider to this science outreach field, in some ways, or in a lot of ways. So I guess the one thing that wasn't spoken about in this dialog was, and maybe it's because there's just knowledge of it beforehand, but it's a big problem that we're trying to solve for, it's how to get science out into communities and received by different communities. I think that I would approach that in centering the voices of those who are at the end of that solution. So the young people in the room who should have that access to sciences should be gaining knowledge of science. So I just think about how much as we think about like, what does this look like when it's scaled or expanded or replicate this outreach? I think a lot about not just thinking, just trying to listen to the voices of the young people and how they react to this sort of outreach or just more broadly like where... I don't know, Rick, if this happened to anywhere along your process, but have you ever sat in a room with kids from the Dwight community, or from the New Haven community and just ask broad questions about what are the best ways to engage you around science? Is it coming to a fall festival? Is it coming into your classroom? Is it doing something in the neighborhood? Really centering those voices because that's the solution that you're solving for.

how do you not just be a flash in the pan? I don't know. I think you do that through organic relationship building, but I don't think that the goal is to be, maybe your goal is not to be a flash in the pan, but your goal certainly isn't to be within that community in the same way. At least that would be the case for me. So me moving into a Dwight community I think it would be a building relationship, but those relationships are going to be different than Dottie's relationship with the 80 year old woman and I should never expect it to be the same. So I think it's a little bit of balance, not wanting to be just as quick in and out peace, but also realizing that it takes work to be part of a community. It takes that time, it takes not only relationship building, but experiencing common experiences together. I think this happens a lot too often in research, where folks on the outside, where researchers go in and they think that six months of relationship building is going to make you this ingrained part of the fabric of a community and it's not, and I think recognizing that and being okay with that is good because I think someone like a Dottie can look at somebody like Rick and say, "You are part of this community in this way." With knowing that it's like you weren't with us 20, 30 years ago when X, Y and Z was happening. So I think it's being realistic about how to what extent you will fit in within the community and being okay. I think sometimes it's pitched as the goal is to become an insider. I never think that the goal should be to become an insider. The goal should to be, to build a relationship as an outsider.

I think it goes back to sort of just narratives and dialogue in the field of just social justice and community change in general around this savior mentality of how much can I go in and really just change or impact the community? I think especially how much can I do so as an outsider of that community, and there are so many different levels to what it means to be an insider or an outsider of a community, right? I think you can in many ways, be bold, you can be somewhere on that continuum. So I know for myself even though I looked more like the people in the room as a black woman, I was not from the Dwight neighborhood or Dwight community like Rick was, for example. So it's a lot about thinking about how much the change has to come from within, how much is that nexus of control really, in that organizing body of black women in the Dwight community who for the past decade has been pulling together these events, have been doing work in the community, and how much can actually be impacted by a Yale or whatever organization, or even a really great community or a really great outside activist who has just good goals and intentions in mind,

So the main focus is not in a lot of these events, actually, especially with this street organizer has not been, let's see what really fancy and cool science activities we can do, but more so how can we help enable the sort of activities that you know that the community that you live in can benefit from, how can we help enable those and also partner if we think it's appropriate to have science activities there?

I think actually listening to Kalisha tell the story about how there was like 40 people lined up out the door, and they were kept out until they mentioned to Dottie that they're with me and with Science Haven, and that they were ushered in right away. Just the reflection, as I was hearing that today made me feel really rewarded for the fact that it's not just I have science activities and that's what they are for and that's really our only connection, but knowing that there seems to be something deeper with what we've been doing with Science Haven and the Dwight community to where someone that is intensely protective, and rightfully so over her community sees us as part of it and just willing to sort of light up her face and smile whenever she knows that someone's with us, made me feel really good and feel like maybe we're onto something with the way that we're trying to approach this project.

I mean, I have a very small, quick vignette. I think being in that space reminded me a lot of my own childhood. So I did feel like an amazing amount of nostalgia when I was there. I grew up in the Bronx in a pretty under served, under resourced neighborhood, and I really could appreciate and my neighborhood was also the kind of neighborhood where all of the people knew each other. My mom would look out the window and see who was outside and then determined whether or not we were allowed to go outside because everybody who was there would have parented your children for you. I saw a lot of that in the Dwight community, and it kind of made me nostalgic and it made me miss home, miss my friends, miss my neighbors. So I don't know, I found that really moving, and I'm also saying this as someone who was completely an outsider to the Dwight community, I was like one of the only white women, just like walking around trying to be as small and unintrusive as possible. But it was clear I did not belong. So it was balancing this amazing the nostalgia especially when the woman broke out with a baton, and I was just thinking about how we used to have choreographed dance routines with batons in our courtyard of our buildings. I also sort of said, I was waiting for them to break out the double Dutch rope because I would have been right there doing that. So I don't know, I loved it. I thought it was a wonderful experience for me in terms of just making me remember being a little kid again.

as soon as people hear you say you're from Yale, it's an immediate off switch almost, people don't want to hear what you have to say, which I'm not trying to say that isn't like what was me, but it's just knowing your audience and not obscuring things but meeting people where they are and knowing that to get the most out of the things, the really cool things that you have to do interact with them with, that you may not want to talk about your pedigree coming from, I'm a graduate student at this prestigious institution, because that's not who we are at that event. I'm just a neighbor that happens to have a table with some slime.

The science that was happening behind that table was really cool and there were a lot of complex concepts behind it, but it was not rocket science, not to say it in a cliche way. It was thinking through density, thinking through molecular stuff, this is like middle school level science that folks that are familiar with. You don't have to be getting your PhD in neuroscience or biology to be able to engage in this way, right? So it could be folks from the [inaudible] department, the sociology department. It could be folks from across the university who could still engage with young people in this way, and there are a lot of people in sort of the social sciences that care about equity and inclusion, and a big piece of that is equity and inclusion of people of color in STEM and in tech because we know that that yield different educational opportunities, different job opportunities that eventually address some of the economic disparities that communities of color face.

the families and the young people interacted in a really positive way. I think the step further to that though is justice. You could react in a positive way, you could have great engagement, it could be fun, I did science I learned something new but there is this sentiment and I just share it personally as a black woman who was a black child of being able to see and experience things and look across the table and say wow, that person looks like me and is doing science, or wow, that person looks like me and knows all these things. There's more of a I can do that, I can do this, I can be this when you're able to see people who look like you.

So just to center community in this piece. I think there is a perception and I think it's important to know that Yale is "bad." I heard to both Dottie Green and then another mom kind of reflect on, I think another organizer reflects on New Haven's relationship with Yale and it came about not in thinking about Science Haven and their park there, they were just talking about this other community, about the upcoming mayoral election, about politics and really this idea of like, literally, which mayoral candidate is here for Yale, and which one is here for the community? So there is this tension that I know, Rick, you know, I know, I know, I know, I feel. I at least feel it when I go out into the community to do research or to engage in any way, but I say that to say there was still such a warm invitation towards Rick and his volunteers and the Science Haven space at this event. So I think that just speaks a lot to the relationship building. So I want to name both, that there is this tension with Yale, but what success looks like when you're intentional about building strong relationships.

I think the way that the Science Haven table operated, it was very fluid in terms of the space that it occupied and how the volunteers were like sitting on the floor with the kids and it was inviting, and it wasn't like just a bunch of scientists sitting behind the table making it seem like there was an awesome them and there was certainly a lot of interaction, a lot of moving around, a lot of getting comfortable with the kids, which was really cool to see. So I don't think that the table stuck out in any way, in terms of the theme and the overall atmosphere of the festival itself.

something like what you've been working on would have actually the greatest impact on those who are involved in sorting out how to engage with the community that they live in, that they found themselves living in as a as a graduate student. I mean, I think that takes a certain level of humility to understand that, that the learning and outreach isn't for the audience, it's for those that are conducting the outreach.

Surveys often are that way to collect data on outcomes, I always think about whenever I'm administering a survey, I try and think very carefully about how I am as a survey complete, or how I am as a person completing a survey. A person who is giving off those outcomes that people are trying to collect. So I think that while they can be valuable in many ways, I think that they're limited, and I think, especially when we're talking about this, when we're talking about what is happening or what happened on Saturday, it is so much more than outcomes, it's so much about process and I think this goes back to everything we were saying around the relationship building piece, the cultural competency piece, how you have to build those parallel strategies. If you are building those parallel strategies, then it's just not about sort of the outcome of what was learned, or how did you engage with science, it is about the process of how this event came to be. So something like an interview with a Dottie Green, or a set of maybe even like three or four qualitative questions that you could ask a subgroup of students or parents leaving the event. I think that is some of the data that should go hand in hand with some of those outcome metrics.

what if we said Saturday was so successful that we want to know next fall, go to a fall festival, similar fall festivals around the country and have volunteers come in and bring science to the community. So I think that the biggest takeaway for me is that every time there has to be sort of these parallel strategies. So it is sort of logistics of like, let's get science out there, let's get the volunteers out there, let's get the material out there. But, I a big question for me was how much of the success of Saturday was just based off of setting up that table and the volunteers and the science, and how much was based off of the relationship between Richard and then the community and the relationship and strength of the community itself? That is not necessarily going to be the experience in any place that you go into. So equally, if not more when I think about hierarchy of need again, I think below as the foundation of even coming in with science, it's really that piece of just what sort of just training around cultural competency and around entering communities are folks getting what sort of tips and tactics are there around relationship building? How does outreach look like to become a part of an event? How does relationship building with event organizers look like? Those pieces seem extraordinarily important, it was the reason when me and Jeanne were standing on the line of then 70 somewhat people outside and tried to sneak through the door, and we're very abruptly stopped by Dottie Green, and then we just gave Richard's name and she was like, "Go ahead, go in" with a huge smile. That can look very different, that could look like, I'm with Jim and no one knows who Jim is. So those pieces are really important, and so that's just something I really think about because I think oftentimes, when we think about taking something good and scaling it, we miss something, and that's why the scaling doesn't happen in the right way. So I would hate to see sort of strategy around science outreach take off, without clear strategy around sort of cultural competency and Jamie said, cultural humility and really this piece around building relationships and entering places as "outsider" in the right way.

having some kids play with slime is not going to fix a pipeline program or pipeline problem, or it's not going to increase, just by increasing exposure to STEM is not going to be solving any intricate and multifaceted problems, and I never thought that it would. I think that maybe this isn't an idea for a springboard, for how best to get... Like for instance, one of the main drivers of Science Haven was that I saw that all these graduate students that are from largely privileged backgrounds, are living in a neighborhood that is extremely secluded away from everyone else in New Haven, and it's just basically for Yale students. I was really bummed out about that and I was like, "Wow, these people aren't experiencing New Haven for what it is truly, they're just from one Yale bubble to another Yale bubble that's separated by New Haven." Which is like some sort of some sort of tunnel they have to go through to get to their job, and I think that's extremely problematic, because there's such a wealth of experiences that would be formative for them to better ground themselves and be able to use their privilege later on once they are continuing to earn more money, become more politically influential and things like that and they're not actually seeing New Haven residents for what they are and realizing that they are neighbors and that they're friends and just because they don't have a Yale ID hanging from their neck or from their belt loop doesn't mean that they're not supposed to interact with them. I am not really good at articulating these sort of ideas, but this is the sort of feelings that were bubbling up when I was thinking about this stuff, and it's not that I think that a VR headset is going to like, it's going to break down all the systemic barriers. Like, "Oh, this kid, he had a chance to see a VR headset and then he just loved science and became the next NASA director." But there's more to it to where I think that working together with people that have a lot more experience with this kid could help you know make this more of like a neighborhood development and leadership program, and like honestly just like soul searching for graduate students who are extremely privileged to be able to be paid to go to graduate school, and to do research to get a PhD, to where they could be interacting their community in a much more serious and important way for all society and not for what they get to put on their CV.

I don't need to get too defensive about it, but I've been thinking about this stuff for a long time and it bums me out that we are having to knock on doors for departments to do stuff like this, and that, even though it gets written up in science strategies from Yale, but they really care about science average in the community, I'm just not necessarily seeing it at the level that I think might be the most interesting and impactful, but it's all about bringing students onto Yale's campus to see exactly how cool and cutting edge stuff is. But it's not like, "Hey, Yale's actually situated in New Haven." It's not the other way around.

the emphasis on relationship building was first and foremost, because we have to have relationship between the graduate students and the neighborhood leaders to have repeated ways of getting out to the community in a real and genuine way. So it's more so just like teaching graduate students that they need to be thinking about outreach in a way that's not just, I'm going to take a Saturday afternoon go in front of my laboratories, my laboratories like lobby area and do some activities with kids who came here with their parents who are also professors or scientists or something like that. So it was sort of shifting the way that we think about outreach overall,